Is public art a mechanism for equitable community building or a tool for gentrification? with Nicole Coleman
Today, we’re talking with Nicole Coleman; an artist, stylist, activist, community organizer and born and raised Worcesterite and asking the question: “Is public art a mechanism for equitable community building or a tool for gentrification?"
Listen to Public Hearing wherever you get your podcasts and on WICN 90.5FM, Worcester’s NPR affiliate station. And, while we celebrate women all year round, our guests for the month of March are all women who live, influence, and/or impact the City of Worcester, MA. Learn more about our show at PublicHearing.co
Transcript for this episode
Joshua Croke (00:02):
Hello Worcester and the world. This is your host, Joshua Croke, and you are listening to the Public Hearing podcast and radio show. Our show is about exploring compelling futures for our cities and communities, by taking a close look at the city of Worcester, Massachusetts, the second largest city in New England, we talk with members of the community, residents, artists, public servants, small business owners, local activists, and politicians about inclusive, equitable, and prosperous growth. Today. We're talking with Nicole Coleman, an artist, stylist, activist, community organizer, and raised Worcesterite. And asking the question is public art, a mechanism for equitable community building or a tool for gentrification. This is the Public Hearing podcast and radio show. Public Hearing is available wherever you listen to podcasts and on WICN 90.5 FM on Wednesdays at 6:00 PM Worcester’s only NPR affiliate station. So I always start the show, asking our guests to share some of their social location, social characteristics of one's identity that have been deemed to be important by society to bring additional context to the conversation that we're having today.
Joshua Croke (01:10):
Some of those might include social class, gender, race, and ethnicity education, and more, whatever our guest feels comfortable, comfortable sharing with the group that they feel is important to bring into this space today. So, Nikki, hi, welcome. Let's dive right in and thank you for coming on Public Hearing. So you've been quoted saying “my career, my life, my mission, and my legacy are dedicated to cultivating love and togetherness.” So before we explore our question today, tell us a little bit more about you, your life and your journey and what you're doing now.
Nicole Coleman (01:44):
I would love to Josh, thank you so much. I'm first of all, I'm really thrilled to be a part of this and I just I'm really excited. More about me would be, you know, like where do I start? I'm a Renaissance woman, I guess many would say most of my energy has been focused in like the film and beauty industries. I didn't get into those areas because I was interested in, you know, like being rich and famous. I saw those as tools to reach people and be able to help people become closer to themselves through storytelling, through, you know, teaching people, how to care more about themselves, how to accept themselves and not follow traditional beauty standards. I'm a bit of a shaker and I've rattled some cages and I don't mind doing that. Growing up in Worcester as, you know, like a young black youth and you know, coming from lower income and working class parents, you know, that really hustled to make sure that like, you know, we had food on the table or our bills were paid.
Nicole Coleman (03:15):
All of that. I had a very real visual of life from very, very early on. And one thing that my mom really instilled in me was not only a love for this city and the community here, but just how much you can help people by coming to them where they are and just treating them like people, you know I was never apprehensive about dealing with people from different backgrounds, demographics, you know, what have you, I just saw people as people and you know, being black and being a woman I've definitely experienced adverse treatment from people that don't really know me just because I am those things. And that has only fueled me wanting to lead more with like, love and understanding for people, because I know how horrible it is to be treated poorly and to be disrespected and even have like threats made against you, just because of the, you know, the amount of melanocytes in your skin or the fact that you were born female it's, you know, I don't understand how you could hate somebody without knowing them at all, just based off of prejudices that you carry around with you.
Nicole Coleman (04:55):
So I try to meet people as far from that kind of rhetoric and mentality as I can, because everyone has a story. I think that we all deserve to be heard and to be seen for who we truly are and to be loved, you know, if you don't people go long periods of time without feeling loved and cared for, like that can have, you know, life-threatening effects for people, you know, and I figure if I have the knowledge within me and the heart within me to give people that care and that love through whatever I do then that's my responsibility to do that.
Joshua Croke (05:44):
Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for sharing and that I think tees us up so well to talk about some of the things that we're going to explore together today, one of those being is public art, a mechanism for equitable community building or a for gentrification and for listeners, I think, you know, one of the, and I have thoughts on this and I'm really excited to engage with you and talk about some of your experience with this. Having been one of the artists in the BLM mural in the city. I was a founding director of Pow! Wow! Worcester, the mural festival in our first year back in 2015. And I've had multiple conversations about public art and beautification and storytelling like public storytelling as is it a mechanism for gentrification or is it something that really is celebrating and centering equity and community? And so I'm really intrigued to kind of get started with you there and talk about that and know that there are so many intersections around art and storytelling and community and culture that we will inevitably talk about. So what is, what are your, some of your thoughts as an artist, as a storyteller, as someone who's passionate about bringing members of the community together, how might we look at public art in our community?
Nicole Coleman (07:07):
You know, growing up, I was really fascinated by some of the murals that were done by, you know, the community members here and you know, over time, they've stated a lot and are kind of patchy. You can't really make out what they are. And it's kind of a metaphor for what's happened to Worcester. As I've seen the people who their heart is here, you know, that they're, they have roots here. And the things that they've put for I've seen them affected by some of the progress that has happened in terms of development in the city. And, you know, so it's interesting to see these murals that I watched be created and grew up around, and even, you know, graffiti, which I believe is a hugely important urban art form that should not be vilified and it should not be criminalized. Those things need to be preserved and upheld more than they are.
Nicole Coleman (08:31):
Yeah, it's really interesting seeing the things that I believe tell the real story of Worcester as a community, not get the same amount of attention as kind of almost like retrofitting Worcester as like what's the city of tomorrow, or like what's city that people want to see. Like what about the city that people that have lived here for generations, what do they want to see? And what does this new generation that's up and coming want? Because I believe that a city should reflect the growth of its people, you know? And it should be representative of everybody that lives there. When it comes to public art, you should be able to go into a city, and just by looking at the murals and art that is visible when you're just walking around, even if you don't really know a lot of people there, you're getting the story.
Nicole Coleman (09:41):
And I feel like places like Philadelphia does such an amazing job with that, because you'll be walking through a neighborhood, you know, as like a visitor and just, and you'll see the murals that are there and you're already taking in a story. I felt that way about New York too. And when Five Points got taken down and, you know, became whatever development is over there now, that was tough for a lot of artists around the world, especially street artists, because that building was like Mecca for street art. People would come over to tag or do a piece on that building. And then when you’re on the subway, you could actually see that building. And it was such a cool moment. And things like that are so important for cities that have such a diverse community, because the whole point of art is it's visual storytelling.
Nicole Coleman (10:48):
You know, even if you're composing a piece of music, if you're doing it in the right manner, when someone's listening to that, it's taking them somewhere, you know, and I really believe firmly that that's what public art should do to like the viewer. It should be like, wow, I've only been here for 10 minutes. Like I get the, I get the vibe of, of where I am, you know, I get a better idea of like who the people are. And I don't think that that's necessarily been a focus when it comes to allowing opportunities to local artists to create public pieces. Which is really unfortunate because we have such a treasure trove of creative individuals that live in the city more so than any other city that I've lived in. And I mean, like I lived in New York City, which is a hub, but it's such a, it's such a transient city where like, yeah, there'll be, it's, it's full of really creative people, but they come from all over the world.
Nicole Coleman (11:55):
Like, there's something here in Worcester that just breeds creativity. And maybe it's because so many of us are not born into having a lot given to us from the jump. So we found our way into the arts as a way of expressing ourselves as a way of preserving our culture as a way of having some space, something that's just safe and secure for us where we feel like everything is okay. And I want more opportunities for that art to be like in the forefront and for these stories of all these different people and cultures to really be told by the people who live here and have experienced things here, you know?
Joshua Croke (12:51):
Yeah. And you mentioned like the graffiti piece of like the, and the importance and the relevance of that. And also, you know, acknowledged the fact that historically and still presently people are criminalized for creating these tags or murals or whatever it might be when not kind of, for listeners, I'm using air quotes, not sanctioned by capital C city. Right. And when we were doing the first year of Pow! Wow!, we had a handful of people in the city come forward and say, we don't want murals on the walls in the city. Like, that's graffiti, it's going to be distracting. What if people in the neighborhood don't like the art that's put up there? How, how do we get to regulate and control? Like what the designs are going to be, things like that, you know, starting to like really engage with folx and be like any, well, let's discuss the first, the nature of art, right?
Joshua Croke (13:47):
Where you don't necessarily have to like art, like a piece of art to engage with it, to learn, to open up and explore the story that's being told for it to have significant value in the community. And I remember as we had pieces going up on the walls back in 2015, 16, when we were doing the first year, people who were walking on the streets, started conversations with each other, who would have otherwise just walked past each other right. On the sidewalk. And so it's this powerful catalyst for connection. And even just introduction to folx who might live, work or be visiting spaces. And I think one of the most powerful pieces that went up that first year was on the YWCA by Askew One who is, you know, you pick up a book on graffiti art and contemporary graffiti art, and Askew is in that book.
Joshua Croke (14:47):
And so there's the other balance of, at what level there a beautiful celebration of a focus on local community artists, as well as opportunity to meet and connect with people who have been doing this work and are looked up to in this space and, you know, Askew flew in and he started just meeting and taking photos of some of the youth and families and people who went to the YWCA in his art was intentionally a reflection of the community. And I remember I was giving a tour of downtown Worcester specifically walking to the Pow! Wow! murals with a group of fellows who were, were here in Worcester for the day studying. And we were at the wall and we were looking at this stunning, massive mural of this young girl's face. And she came out of the playground and was like, that's me.
Joshua Croke (15:47):
And she came out with the teacher who was there. And these folx who were visiting the city, got to meet the inspiration, who is a member of this community. And so when you talk about the local connection, a hundred percent, like we need art to be the stories of our community. And that can be told by local artists that can be told by folx who respect that narrative and the importance of that message. And jumping back to the kind of graffiti and the criminalization of that, you know, there's also this level of fractured trust. I feel that is present when, you know, a community says, Oh, look at how much attention Worcester got because we had this mural festival. Now let's do more of this, but not recognizing or respecting the history of harm of, and criminalization of folx in our community doing something similar, just not necessarily, again, air quotes sanctioned by the city. So how do we also recognize and build trust with members of the community who are now seeing art and representations of community, or not necessarily being reflected on these walls of our neighborhoods, our spaces, and how do we build trust with those folx in our community and connect the creative community in Worcester to build power, to, you know, say like we're here and we want to be telling our stories in these spaces in these ways, and we need to be supported in doing that.
Nicole Coleman (17:28):
Yeah. You know, I think that there are certain cities that have kind of taken that idea of like building trust and trying to, you know, kind of repair that idea that, Oh, street artists are, you know, they're criminals, they're people that are, you know, hopping, subway trains with backpacks full of spray cans. And you know, they're vandalizing public property, you know, places like Cambridge have found a way to have dedicated space where it's like, you can come here, you can tag, you know, you can have a piece of this space and we're not coming after you, you know, you're not going to get a RAP sheet for this. You know, this space is your space. And in a very like high traffic area that a lot of people pass through, which is really cool. I think that is one way of going about it where, you know, where it has to be, you know, kind of the bureaucratic side of the city saying, Hey, you know, look, we did this mural festival and wow.
Nicole Coleman (18:48):
We've gotten a lot more positive feedback than we have negative in terms of like the fact that those murals exist now. How can we make this something that isn't just a festival? Like how do we work with the local art community and say, Hey, we have this building that, you know, we're working to activate, or, you know, that's been vacant for however long. We want to make it look more inviting and show people the vibrancy and the value of being a part of this city you know, and approach people who haven't necessarily gotten the opportunities to create big pieces that you see in POW! WOW!. I do think that the positive end of something like Pow! Wow! is that, you know, for the kids that live in those neighborhoods to see that being a professional like muralist and like street artists is something that is attainable. And that you can get to a point where you aren't thought of as like some sort of vandal for doing that. But in a lot of the artists that have come through Pow! Wow!, there's definitely a lack of representation of the type of people that live in this city. You know, I went to Elm park Elementary and I can't remember it being very homogenous in terms of our student body. I mean, we had very diverse students from literally like backgrounds from all over the world.
Nicole Coleman (20:41):
It would have been really cool for some of the students that were into art. And, you know, when I was going there, like what seems like centuries ago, it would have been great to have the opportunity to have like students involved, like you come up with something that tells your story of who you are and like, and being able to go at that way and then bringing in somebody that's maybe a more practiced artists and having them create or help these young people create their ideas, their designs. So it's not just like with that little girl at the Y who's like, that's, you know, someone painted me, which is, that's so beautiful. But imagine if her and her friends came up with like a concept and then that artist was like, okay, I'm going to help show you how we do this.
Nicole Coleman (21:47):
You know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna use this as a teachable moment, but I'm also gonna learn about you. And you're going to feel empowered to be able to do this someday too if you want to, if you find interest in that you know, to me, that's how you really built trust amongst people just like you know, I'm not an expert at metal work, but one of my best friends who I've done effects with, she's an incredible, like welder and a really good at metalworking. And we've done things together when I'm like, Oh, like I hadn't used power tools really, before I started working with her, I was like I'm nervous that like, I'm going to mess up this piece. She's like, don't be nervous. You know? Like here's how to like, position yourself, how to ground yourself.
Nicole Coleman (22:40):
And then like, you've got this, like, you can do this. And then there were things that I helped her have more of like an understanding of, because things that I was learning in school and we just, we worked so collaboratively together. And we, you know, we're able to see that we each like benefited from each other and our individual experience, and we could work together and learn from each other and grow together and, and ultimately become stronger artists. And that was such a cool experience that I was like, you know, I want more like young people to have this where you meet somebody, whether it's a peer or somebody that's like an older mentor that is willing to work with you to help you learn the skill where you can take that and use it to do something maybe totally new and different that hasn't been done before.
Nicole Coleman (23:44):
And ultimately use it to like express yourself, to take out things that are inside of you and learn to like formulate that into some sort of creation. That not only builds someone's confidence, it builds community, it builds trust that builds feeling safe with others. That's the beauty of art, you know? My niece and nephew were, we were painting the other night and my nephew had the canvas turned over and my niece was like, “Oh, he's all he's using the wrong side.” And I said, “there's no wrong side in art.” She's like, “I guess you're right.” She’s just six. She was like “Oh, I guess you're, I guess you're right.” I'm like, “yeah, like that's the beauty of art is like, if he wants to, you know, draw and paint on the back of a canvas, that's his thing” you know, it's like, that's what he's doing.
Nicole Coleman (24:52):
That's his creation. And that's how he's choosing to express himself. And that's a beautiful, wonderful thing. You know, there's no right color to use. There's no, it's about like taking what's inside of you and learning how to bring it out and not just like, not just the good things, you know, something that's so powerful about art is you can release pain when you're creating something and have it be so freeing, as opposed to even just like going and sitting in like talking to a therapist or, you know, being a part of a support group when you take, because it gives you the power to say, you know what, I'm letting go of this, but I'm going to take this hurt and I'm going to turn it into something that will inspire somebody else, will cause someone else to think, will bring beauty into the world. And that's just so that's so powerful. It's such a powerful tool. Art is a powerful tool. And I don't feel like as a city, as a whole we are utilizing that as much as we could be, to unite people, to bring people together.
Joshua Croke (26:23):
Well, and I think, you know, there's also the art as statement inspiration from the artist's perspective of the emotional energy and release that you are putting into your work and your creation. And it also sometimes, and I'm interested in your thoughts on the BLM mural in Worcester, as well as a statement, but then also was the statement heard by enough people to follow through into action. Right? And I think that there was an incredible, that day, the day of creation was so powerful to see folx coming from all different parts of the city, working on this. It was like truly community effort. And we know from being involved in the city, that there is still a long way to go to achieve equity in our community, equity in education, equity in healthcare access. We're talking to, or we talked to Mattie Castiel the Commissioner of Health and Human Services about vaccine equity and the challenges around you know, racial and ethnic disparities in public health and how that echoes into public education. So like, what would you say to the moving art into action and like really realizing that as a mechanism for inspiring action?
Nicole Coleman (27:58):
Yeah. I think that so much right now in our country, not just our city, there's so much political energy around everything, and it's reached like a really intense state of hyperbole where the real root of everything, the real cause is getting lost in the combatant between everyone, because there's just so there's so much pain, there's so much fear. There's so much confusion. There's a sense of real civil unrest in our country right now. And I feel it here in Worcester too, when it came to the BLM mural, I feel like it didn't get the reach that we had really hoped for. One thing being where it's placed. I mean, I know that that was what was happening across the city or like the cities all over the country is that they were doing street murals, like, you know, like choosing one street and, you know, and, a block to do the mural.
Nicole Coleman (29:24):
And I do think that the placement of our mural was interesting be it the location of the street, but also just kind of how much space we had and all of that. And that it's a fairly busy street. So even people coming in, like looking at it or like us as artists going back and being like, Oh, like, yeah, I want to show my family member this. Or, you know, if people want to take pictures there and they're like, I don't want to get run over. It's a busy street, right near a hospital and like a big convention center. And just like, you know, so that was just like created its own very weird energy, but then people taking the words Black Lives Matter and making it into an argument and totally missing why these words are being said, why these words are reverberating across the globe and why we want to do this mural.
Nicole Coleman (31:02):
People were coming by and being supportive. And then we had people coming by and yelling that we were communists and we were ruining the country. And we were, you know, like the epitome of like evil and really horrific things. And I mean, we had children and teenagers that were helping us, you know, and that was just so telling to just, I think the disconnect that we have amongst each other, and, you know, for me, it was like, I am not a any of those things that were uttered to me. I was down there. I was a part of that mural because I believe that human life has value, regardless of, I believe that human life has value. Like that’s was my baseline. And as a black woman, I do not believe that my life has less value simply because I am a black woman.
Nicole Coleman (32:18):
And the fact that is even a system of belief out there is just so disgusting, it's disturbing, it's disheartening. It's all of those things and more, and because we have children that are growing up in this time and because I work with youth and young people of the future, I didn't want them to see me not take a stance for them, you know, because if my black life matters, so does theirs. And so do all of the black lives that have lived before us and will come after us and everyone in between, you are not devalued simply because you are of a different race.
Nicole Coleman (33:24):
And that system of thought should not exist. And that's what that mural was about. Was that please look at this, look at this representation of everyone from across the African diaspora, we are such a vibrant and beautiful and loving culture of people. And the African diaspora is so that. So there's all these different subcultures that make up black American culture. And it's beautiful. Why would you want to wage war on that? You know, and that's when we went in there trying to create, and with the hope that it would change some minds and some hearts, but I don't think that there was enough done by the city at large to combat a lot of the hate speech and just really disgusting, horrific things that would be said about us as artists. And then just what that, like the creation of that mural in general. Yeah it was hard
Joshua Croke (35:05):
Talking about like visual storytelling, you know, if there were a mini documentary or even just a video capture of the process of the mural being created, it is joy and smiles and people talking there were tears talking about the challenges that are still being faced in our community. There was togetherness being met with anger, right? And I think that that is such a potent component of community. And also like, as we're talking about, you know, Public Hearing, this show is about exploring compelling futures as a community. And so what does that mean? What needs to be named and acknowledged? And it is, I think Worcester oftentimes behind the podium will say, we're this progressive city. We do X, Y, and Z that really, you know, is leading the progressive agenda. And I think that often that's behind a podium and not followed through an action.
Joshua Croke (36:16):
You know, we still have systems, whether it's our education system or our systems of public safety, if we can call them that, that don't name, structural racism as a problem that affects Worcester as a problem that affects our communities as a whole. And as long as that recognition is not named people will combat the reason people are doing this work. And, you know, I, the work that I do is specifically around kind of working with organizations, communities, and coalitions to address root causes of challenges, right? Looking at how do we address the fact that black and Brown kids make up more of our juvenile justice system than their white peers. Right. And how, how do we address the fact that we know that black and Brown youth are being suspended in school at much higher rates than their white peers? And how can we address that if we don't name it for what it is, it's a structure of racism. It's a structure of oppression that is leading to these, you know community challenges. And as soon as we name something, you can begin to address it. And there are a lot of people, players, and systems in our city that don't want to bring voice to the challenges that are faced here.
Nicole Coleman (37:51):
Yep.
Joshua Croke (37:53):
So, I guess my question is, If I were to pose a question in that kind of connecting it to art, but also, you know, you mentioned earlier being a Renaissance woman and I've used the same description of myself sometimes as like a Renaissance person, loving art and science and culture and creation and community and vibrance. And a lot of people talk about Worcester's Renaissance. And it's something that I've challenged a lot as a term, because Renaissance is the peak of these things coming in concert. And, you know, being this truly like vibrant ecosystem of art and progress and scientific achievement. And I challenged the Worcester Renaissance argument because I think it's used to show the vision of what Worcester could be through a very specific, and I'll say whitewashed lens as to realizing a new Worcester, as opposed to celebrating the existing work that's been done by residents, the culture of those residents and bringing that forward as not only our growth strategy, but the way in which we see the city in the future.
Joshua Croke (39:19):
I think there are so many people that if you ask, what is Worcester going to look like in 10 years? And if you ask the second question as what would you like Worcester to look like in that amount of time, people would have two very different answers. And I think the real question that we're looking at here on this show is how do we combat the negative impacts of gentrification and hold the city and decision-makers accountable to focusing on resident success and resident growth and resident access to education, the ressident access to healthcare and to jobs, what needs to be done in order for us to, and us as the residents and the people who are here and the people who have been here generationally? I've only been in Worcester 10 years. How do we center those voices in the progress of growth?
Nicole Coleman (40:16):
Yeah. I mean, how much time do we have? Oh my gosh. You know, I have seen a lot in 35 years of being a Worcester born and raised. Yeah. Even going and living in other cities, you know, like this has always been my home base. So even like in New York, like, you know, I'd be like video chatting or like texting, calling, you know, my family and my friends back here and be like, what's going on? Oh, what's happened then, Oh my gosh, that shut down. Oh my gosh, wait, what? Like when she boom was done, I was just like, I feel like a part of me died because that was one place where there were so many different types of people. And I would see you know, people that will come in from like surrounding towns, like Holden, Marlborough, and that stuff, and then like interact with like Worcester, like natives and very different demographics of people.
Nicole Coleman (41:44):
But through like music and like, you know, dance and just like wanting to enjoy like a night out. I feel like the media, like the paper would always make a note on like the fights that would happen to make it look like it just to feed into like, the reasons of why, like, it just needs to be shut down. Like there's too much of this, or when I would go there all the time and it would be so rare that people were fighting. And if there was a fight, it was always like a one-off scenario. It was like the whole club was a brawl. The majority of it was just all different types of people coming together, having a good time.
Nicole Coleman (42:30):
And through a lot of the development that's happened, those places have gone. Those places have been shut down and it's really disheartening. It really is. It bums me out so much because, you know, for someone like yourself, who's only been in Worcester 10 years. There's all of this stuff that existed before that made it so dope, like to be in, it was like “Oh yeah, I'm from Worcester. Like we've got so much great stuff. Like people want to come here. Like for us we have a good time.” You know, a lot of my dad's family came up from Alabama and made Worcester like their home, you know? And to me that says a lot because they found enough value here as a family. And there's a lot of Coleman’s here. And there's been a lot that have come and gone over the years. And like we're so proud to have this as our home, but we're also hurt because we seen what a lot of these outside developers coming in have done to change to shift things so that the people with the most money and the most, you know, say, especially like political say, has started to cater to like a new Worcester, you know, and like using air quotes there.
Nicole Coleman (44:19):
But Worcester natives were like, this is weird. This is not our city. When I have new people that come in and are, you know, working on a project that we have a production or are coming in like for business or something. And then they're like, “what's there to do, like, tell me about here.” Like, “Oh, if you lived here like your whole life,” I'm like, “yeah, this is my heart, my home, you know, like I take that, I take that very seriously.” But I'm very honest with people, also people like all the cool things they're kind of not here anymore. You know, these big, vibrant murals that you see, like those are outside artists. The Bridge, which has become a real gathering spot for, especially BIPOC created is really the only building currently that I see like the heart of Worcester, you know, I see that like community feeling that vibrancy that life, you know, when you look at the building, you look at all the murals that like all local artists have done. You feel that you're like, wow, that reminds me like, when it was like 1995 and I was walking down Highland street and you had all these cool different shops. And like, they were owned by people that I knew. And I grew up knowing, and like, you know, my best friend's family owned, you know, Fields on the corner and Burkshere and like a group on that street. And just like, everything felt like home to me.
Nicole Coleman (46:12):
And one of the reasons why I decided to leave Worcester and go to New York is because I was like, there's nothing for me here as a creative, like, what am I going to do here? And everything that I liked to do, you know, like with my friends has been like taken away, you know, you don't have, we don't have like places to go and chill anymore. And that, you know, to be very candid, like that sucks. And now I see this whole new generation growing up and I mean, I feel bad. I just do, because I feel like one of those old heads that's like, Oh, back in my day, you know, we had this and this and I don't want to do that. I don't want to say, well, you know, we had Skylight and we had the Lucky Dog and we had Shabu.
Nicole Coleman (47:15):
And we had like Club Marquee. We had like the Boiler Room. We had all these places where it was like, I'm going to go from here to here to here. And I know who is deejaying there, and I know who's going to be over there and I'm going to meet my like friends to get like lunch here. There's so many small businesses, so much life, from nightlife to just like cultural, like spots have gotten shut down. And now we have a lot of kind of like, ho-hum kind of restaurants. You know, I think Shrewsbury Street has really maintained having that, you know, Italian like heritage that neighborhood has had for, you know, so long. So you have places where you can get like a very home cooked style, like Italian meal. So there's still pockets of that. But even so much of that has changed and has become like, I don't know, like I don't even have the words for it. Cause it's so weird. Like even places like the Flying Rhino feels so different on that end, where, and then you go way down to the other end of Shrewsbury street where you still have like really small restaurants, super, super tiny. They're still family owned that have been there for decades and decades and decades.
Nicole Coleman (48:46):
And so there's this really confusing energy here where we're like, okay, yes. Obviously things have to progress and things need to grow and develop. But how do we keep that heart of being a like diverse, beautiful city that's where we're celebrating everybody’s cultures. Because even just like the food here, it's like, you don't even have enough, like culturally diverse restaurants that represent all of the different cultures that are here.
Joshua Croke (49:33):
Yeah, I was going to say, and that's also telling of like, talking about like histories and access to capital and access to resources to be able to start these things. And that's one of the things that I always ask folx about is like, we spend plenty of money on plenty of things as a city. Right. And our first guest of season two, Etel Haxhiaj, who's running for City Council in District Five was talking about like the budget as a moral document, right? Like you can say whatever you want behind a podium, but if someone in your community reviews your budget, they know exactly what your priorities are. And they see the things that you actually are spending time funding and allocating, you know, the top salaries of the municipal employees recently came out and the first 300 are almost all police officers in our community.
Joshua Croke (50:34):
You know, like our Commissioner of Health and Human Services is number 277 on the salaries list for the city of Worcester. Right. And we only have about like three or four minutes left and want to extend appreciation to you for being honest with your feelings and the way that you've experienced the city, especially being born and raised here. And I think for some folx listening, it might be very contrasting to what they are used to hearing either on the radio or in the newspaper, talking about Worcester gets new restaurant or Worcester gets ballpark, or Worcester gets this, or Worcester gets that. And to really show the contrast of what folx who grew up here, maybe thinking about some of this. So in our last three or four minutes, then my final question to you is how do we get people to experience the real Worcester and build that vibrant community centered city while also protecting residents from exploitation, eviction, you know, being priced out of their family and like generational homes.
Joshua Croke (51:51):
Because I think some people who might be listening, or I think some of the people that I've interacted with in the past, the narrative is, well, you don't want the city to be successful. And it's like, Whoa, like there's different definitions of success first and second, like it's just that, you know, people's definitions of success are very different. And I believe that we can achieve equity, inclusion, sustainability, and prosperity if we focus on the residents here. So how do we get people to experience that real Worcester and build vibrant, continue to build a vibrant community, celebrating and centering the cultural heritage of the folx who live here.
Nicole Coleman (52:41):
I think like so many other things that are happening around us there needs to be a system of acceptance, you know, even if it's a tough pill to swallow, which you know, a lot of what's happening in our world right now it's not palatable. It's not comfortable. It's very uncomfortable and it's disturbing and it's heartbreaking. But I don't believe that there is no possibility for hope to come in and things to change, but it does take the acknowledgement that there are problems. And then collectively working with people who are in these communities that are affected directly and saying, well, how do you need help? How can we help instead of creating systems where it's like, we already came up with it we’re the small little pocket of people that make decisions, and we decided where money's going to get allocated and where things are gonna go. And we just think that this is what this demographic or that demographic of people need instead of actually going and having real human conversations to say, we're meeting you where you're at, what is it that, that you need and let's work together to make that possible.
Joshua Croke (54:31):
Thank you for listening to Public Hearing our podcast and radio show that airs Wednesdays at 6:00 PM on WICN 90.5 FM Worcester's only NPR affiliate station. If you're not in the Central Mass radio range, you can tune in live via their website at wicn.org. And remember, you can find us wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you to Nicole Coleman for coming on the show and speaking with us today. My name is Joshua Croke, and this has been the Public Hearing podcast. Public hearing is created and produced by Action! by Design. We help organizations deliver and develop equity centered community engagement strategies, facilitate community workshops, tackling social issues and help build coalitions and brands that better the world learn more at actionbydesign.co that's C O not.com. Our audio producer is Giuliano D'Orazio. Thank you to Eric Gratton, Molly Gammon and Shaun Chung, who also support the production of Public Hearing. Also, we would love to hear from you, our listeners about what's resonating about our conversations and what you might want to hear on future episodes of the show. One of the best ways to support Public Hearing is by sharing it with your friends, colleagues, and others in our community. So we can keep making these episodes focused on equity centered community led resident focused development in our cities and our spaces, and as always, thanks for listening.
